Looking north on Hudson Avenue this morning at 7:55a.
After a brief war of the curb, Hudson Avenue homeowners and tenants last night became the latest on the East Side to win resident permits to park their cars.
The victory came at the expense of the 138 employees of the Red Bank Post Office on Broad Street, some of whom say the expansion of permits-only parking will only make it harder for them to find spots for their vehicles while they work.
The two sides butted bumpers at the bimonthly meeting of the Red Bank Borough Council over an ordinance that would replace the two-hour parking on Hudson between Harding Road and East Bergen Place with a residents-only restriction.
When residents complained that their driveways were frequently blocked, or that they couldn’t park in front of their homes even late at night, groans and objections could be heard from a cluster of Postal Service employees who had turned out to oppose the plan.
“Nobody blocks driveways,” said a postal worker who commutes from Aberdeen. “We’re very aware that people live there.” Another called the complaint “offensive,” and asked for a check of police records to establish whether it was true.
But council members, led by Mayor Pasquale Menna, appeared dug in, blaming the post office for insufficient efforts to find parking alternatives. The post office reserves its own lot for its 53-truck fleet, and has an agreement with the nearby Verizon building to allow about a dozen employees to park there.
“I think the post office and the U.S. government, frankly, have to bear responsibility to find parking for their employees,” said Councilman Mike DuPont. “The residents are entitled to their street.”
“We’d love to help you out, but the post office has to bear some responsibility” to provide spaces for its employees, said Councilwoman Grace Cangemi.
The council’s vote was unanimous in favor of the ordinance. Councilman John Curley was absent.
Permit parking was already in place nearby on Branch Avenue and South Street. Last August, it was extended to include all of East Bergen Place.
Postal workers, with no employee parking facility to use, say the squeeze drives them further into surrounding neighborhoods, or forces them to leave their posts every two hours to move their cars.
In their view, Hudson makes sense. The post office property backs onto Hudson, and workers contend that there are ample spaces along the street during the daytime hours that they need them. One said he frequently sees 100-yard stretches of curbing with no cars adjoining them. “This is totally unnecessary,” he said of the change.
Referring to a host of environmental initiatives that DuPont had called for earlier in the meeting, postmaster Leo Nara said he didn’t “understand the logic” of the ordinance.
“You’re talking about ‘green.’ They have to go out four times a day and move their cars,” he said of the employees. “How is that green?”
Another employee, citing his experience as a postal employee in the Hudson County town of Harrison, suggested the borough issue job-based permits to any worker who can produce a letter from his employer citing the need. In Harrison, he said, the permits cost $35 a year. Menna said he would consider the idea.
But when one employee said she often parks her car on Leroy Place, Menna replied, “I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens on Leroy, also.”
Here’s the ordinance: Download hudson_permits.pdf
I was in the Verizon lot the other day. It's huge and was empty midday. I suspect all their downsizing over the last 20+ years has left their lot largely unused.
Wow, 138 employees. I never would have guessed it was that many.
What about the parking lots at the Methodist and Christian Scientist churches that are down the block? Surely they aren't filled during post office business hours.
Why don't the feds throw an extra $500K into the parking fund?
Padrone, you got to love the touch of irony in all of this.
Does the Red Bank Borough Council and the Red Bank Zoning Board actually hail from the same town?
They should take the $200k that they got from Chubby's & BS & create some new parking for the post office. BETTER YET, the post office should propose building a NEW PARKING GARAGE, the town would approve that in a second!
Considering the Post Office starts its carriers at 7:30, that street doesn't look terribly overcrowded!
Verizon lets the P.O. use 10 spaces.
The churches that allow P.O. parking also limit the number of spaces.
There are postal workers who will retire before they qualify for a space!
"The residents are entitled to their street."
where was this concern when buona sera's expansion (1st AND 2nd) was approved. are the residents near buona sera's NOT entitled to their street(s)? it is even worse for our area because after 6pm (which is prime time for buona sera's and count basie patrons) street parking is no longer limited to 2 hours. so, people can park for as long as they lke. it's great having a friend come over and they can't even find a parking spot near my house!
and talk about parking right to the edge of the driveway! i'm sure that post office workers actually care about this and avoid doing so. however, many people that park in front of my house could care less if it makes it difficult for me to pull in or out of my driveway. it is very common to see one person get out of the car to "judge" if they are blocking my driveway or that of my neighbors. so, back to my qustion about buona sera's expansions, where was the concern for residents at that point?? ridiculous
The story in the Asbury Park Press mentioned that, according to the postmaster, "post office policy considers parking to be the responsibility of the employee." It's naive to think that the USPS bureaucracy will make a policy change to accommodate Red Bank. So the employees will have to continue to fend for themselves.
ha…if the city could shake down the USPS for a "variance" they would have but unfortunately, for Pasquale & Co, they were trumped by the bigger bureaucracy.
also, I wonder any council memebers live on the efficted street???
will all these new parking restrictions be enforced for the Sheehan Classic? Look at all the parking tickets they can isssue then!!!!
bingo thats the answer if we tell everyone in the town to park in front of everyones houses they will support a parking deck to keep the customers and employees where they belong in a long term deck and traffic will be cut in half without all those ny plates circling for spots
good to see they got what they wanted, the post office can deal with the problem of parking the residents shouldn't have to suffer.
I agree with linda b. It’s blatantly hypocritical to say the Hudson St. residents are entitled to their on-street public parking spaces, while the Planning Board just granted a HUGE parking variance to Boner Sera based on the available on-street public parking in the adjacent residential areas. Everyone can't be entitled. I live with an identical situation on Washington St., which is 2 hour parking for everyone except for those who display a residential parking permit. A lot of people going to the Hospital park in front of my house, and occasionally I have to park a block away, but there's always somewhere to park. I don't understand why they would have to restrict that huge street to residents only. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that would almost be illegal. That's a public right of way, not someone's driveway. The residents who live on Hudson St. don't pay property taxes for their on-street parking spaces. The entire town pays the taxes for that street. The "public" on-street parking spots should remain available to the public, if only for 2 hours.
I live right on Hudson and never had a problem with them parking there. There was still plenty of parking on the street, they never blocked my driveway, and were gone before I get home. The 2 hour limit was fine to keep people from hogging the street. I don't understand how people think they can live so close to downtown and not have traffic and some (slight) parking problems, that comes with it.
I wonder if the town can claim eminent domain on all the disused private parking lots.
Agree with Stephen M. and Jack. I live on Leroy, which is right across Broad from the post office, and we don't have issues with on-street parking. We have the 2-hour limit on parking (unless you have a resident sticker) and it works out fine. The downtown streets, like Hudson and Leroy, should be available for public parking.
I was just thinking there is another side to this, why is the post office on Broad St? I mean if they knew they were going to need parking for about 150 cars, why even have it in a place KNOWN to have tight parking?
I do see people running in and out of there all day, but I see alot of them drive up, run in, then drive off. If people are driving anyway maybe they can relocate it. How many really walk downtown to the post office, I'd be content with a mailbox there.
while we are talking about parking in front of driveways- Patrons of Count Basie and Bueno Sera park in front on my driveway all of the time
but the worst offenders are parents whose children attend Red Bank Charter School. Little Timmy and Jonny cant walk more than 5 feet. Stop parkign in front of my driveway. How can you have a school with no parking?????????
Can't you have someone towed away if they are blocking your driveway? That's got to cost the illegal parker a couple of hundred bucks, right? Granted, that's not even close to the satisfaction that one would get by slashing the offender's tires and then kicking his ass when he came back for his car. But then again, I guess we all have to grow up sometime, right?
now civilized- i would have the police at my house everyday. sometimes mommys just sit and chat on there cell phones in front of my driveway. i don think they would like it if i did that in front on there homes.
to answer Jack's question…..the Postal service owns that building.
The post office has been on Broad Street forever. It was originally in the Garmany building, but moved to it's current location 40 or so years ago. I can look up the date if I have to. It isn't easy to find a building that size in a convenient spot. Next time you are in the P.O., look behind the window area, and get an idea just how large that building is. It handles mail for not only Red Bank, but also Fair Haven, Shrewsbury, the Oceanport secton of Fort Monmouth, parts of Tinton Falls, and parts of Middletown. If it was to be moved out of Red Bank, where would you send it? And, would you all want to change your addresses to another town?
The post office has been there since before parking was considered a problem,
WOW, 138 pissed off postal workers!!
I wouldnt want to go in that post office anymore, One might just snap.
I'm with Jack. I'm on Hudson and have never had a problem with the postal workers. Also, if someone had a car blocking their driveway on my street I would have noticed. I've never seen such a thing.
There is a problem when they were chased off South Street on to Bergen. Then it became hard to turn off Hudson because they blocked visibility.
I don't understand how these permits are going to work. If my dad comes to visit for a week where can he park his car? I don't have a garage or much of a driveway. And when people come home from work that have to shuffle cars in the driveway with the babysitter? And contractors and landscapers have to park in driveways? It's silly.
Parking has never been a problem on Hudson. It's speed and cut-through traffic that is the problem.
Chris, I imagine that in addition to your permanent resident permit(s), you will also receive a temporary card/permit(s) that your babysitter, contractor, Dad, etc. can place on their dashboard that will allow them to legally park on your street.
Alicia, I would move it to an office/industrial park off Shrewsbury or 35. I don't think it's impossible to move a post office, the only places that need to send things to them are other post offices. Or instead of moving, they can have an auxiliary office to house the trucks and most of the workers, then maintain the Broad St for the odd person that walks in to buy stamps or mail a letter. Do they really need to have that many people right on Broad St?
I live on Hudson Ave and I am opposed to the new resident parking plan. The real problem is lack of enforcement of the 2 hour limit. The borough will not ticket postal workers. We have called town hall many times and the postal workers get tipped off before the parking guys arrive so the only people who get tickets are the residents! I have two post office cars that sit in front of my home all day, six days a week. They also hog spaces in the Middle School parking lot. The post office facility is only big enough to handle local mail - regional mail for Middletown et al should be redirected. The post office was located here when the town was Dead Bank - nobody cared, property wasn't worth much and many Hudson Ave properties were allowed to be used for egress from Broad St churches and businesses. We need to protect residential neighborhoods from encroachment from the commercial district. The dumpster serenade and the horrible fence they were allowed to put up are other examples. Still, if the borough enforced the two hour parking limit, the problem might be manageable. I'll be interested in seeing if they enforce the new ordinance.
One. the post office is federal property. All this talk about emminent domain…I suppose we could take over a few houses on Hudson, and build our own parking lot. Not likely, but also not impossible.
two. If it is moved, which is pretty unlikely. you will no longer have a RED BANK mailing address. You will be XXX Hudson Ave., and the town would be wherever it moved to. the 07701 zipcode would no longer exist.
Industrial parks? Guess the closest one is in Eatontown.
xxx Hudosn Avenue Eatontown, N.J.
do you all want that confusion? Talk to the people who live in Middletown, but have to use Red Bank 07701 for their town. Their mail that gets addressed to Middletown 07748 gets returned to the sender because that street does not exist in Middletown as a valid mailing address.
The middle school has allowed the post office a certain number of their unused spaces. They are assigned, and valid.
The post office is not moving, no matter how much you hate it. The fence is federal building security.
No one allowed us to put it there. We are not under the control of any local authority.
We will pay our parking tickets. YES we all do get them.
You will still get your mail.
Your carriers will just have to get up ealier to park even farther away from where they work. Or pay for a rented space when they can be found.
I just think this is a ordinance based against a specific group of people, limiting the use of what is supposedly public property and is inherently illegal.
"the odd person that walks in to buy stamps or mail a letter"
sorry jack, but i have to disagree. i walk to the post office on a weekly basis there is always a line. there are a lot of people who use the post office. i see more people in the post office than i see in most businesses in town.
Hudson avenue is always packed with cars not only from the post office but at night when the methodist church people come there isnt a spot to park for anyone. Its great what was put into place so the residents can park in front of there own home and not have to worry about there spot being taken.
Just to answer a few questions about the postal employees. One, I don't know where Jack gets his information from that the postal employees don't get tickets. The Red Bank employees have paid enough parking fines to pay the yearly salary of one of the Parking Meter Attendants. The Middle School gives us 10 spaces, Verizon give us about 12 spaces (even though the lot is almost empty, we've tried to get more space but they they won't budge for more spaces), and one of the churches on Hudson (i can't remember the name) gives us 10 spaces. After 10 am all USPS employees are not parked on Hudson. We don't park there on the weekends, holidays, or the summer. When the middle school is off from school, we are allowed to park on their lot.
I certainly hope the cops find the guy that put a gun to the head of all these people and forced them against their will to become postal employees here in Red Bank. I guess we can blame him for the parking problem once he is arrested.
I noticed this site has a little glitch. The people who post a comment, the names do not match up with the person commenting. My name is No Where to Park. I am one of those postal employees who someone put a gun to my head to get a job here in Red Bank. I can't believe someone is stupid enought to make that comment. Most of us have been working in Red Bank for more than 10 years, and there was not an issue in parking anywhere in town. Everyone I talked to on my route and many other Red Bank residents can't believe how the town can bow down to a few people on one street and are allowing these people to make this street their own little private street. I heard that the residents of Hudson are trying to stop all commercial vehicles which includes the Postal and Verizon vehicles and have them enter through the Broad St. entrance. Why don' they just make it a gated community!!!
"One. the post office is federal property. All this talk about emminent domain…I suppose we could take over a few houses on Hudson, and build our own parking lot. Not likely, but also not impossible… No one allowed us to put it there. We are not under the control of any local authority"
Alicia,
Wonderful way to help diffuse a situation. Obnoxious, to tell the truth. I don't live on Hudson and I don't care where you park, but your attitude is probably part of the problem.
Here's another way to look at it:
Situation 1: Businesses looking to increase their profits need a place for their customers and employees to park so they don't have to walk 2 blocks.
Council response: Let us build you a $11- million garage.
Situation 2: A quasi- government public service organization needs a place for employees to park.
The Council response: Too bad, find your own parking.
Let's hope this signals a change in the Council's attitude towards parking, and isn't just a result of the USPS not making campaign contributions.
I amazes me how the good people of Red Bank seem to have such an obsessive compulsion about parking. Nothing else in RBG produces the vitriol, the infighting that parking does. The town is a little over ONE square mile. Even an ancient guy like me can walk from anywhere to anywhere inside of ten minutes.
Imagine being so well off, so spoiled, so lazy as a culture that we are willing to do battle with our neighbors over who has to walk an extra 100 yards to get where they're going!
Padrone,
You still got my vote.
Hey,
Why is it the Red Bank Post Office has to sort mail for the rich part of Middletown?
Is it too long a drive up the highway to 07748?
Why is it that the Red Bank post office is the prime sorting station for Fair Haven, Shrewsbury, and Little Silver?
It seems to me that Red Bank is again bearing the burden of regional needs at our expense. Where are our legislators and Congress people? Put the mail where its suppose to be.
Expand Fair Haven, Little Silver, & Shrewsbury beyond their store front operations , transfer the the required employees out of the Red Bank location, and reduce our burden.
As for Middletown, the only reason we don't get the Abbott Funding blank checks for our schools is because those 07701 incomes across the River hurt our demographics.
Let's fix the obvious!!!!
"Pardone", you make a profound point, but what would the rest of us, who love nothing more than to hear ourselves talk, do???
I wasn't at the Council Meeting when they voted unanimously for this ordinance, but it seems to me the proper place "to do battle with our neighbors" was at the Council Meeting, and not in this blog after the fact. We can prattle on and on and on about it, but the deed is done.
Might I suggest (challenge) us all to start attending these meetings regularly in order voice our opinions in the proper format at the prudent moment. I think that would be a far more productive use of our time, energy, and opinions.
… And "RB",… The parking spaces on Hudson Street don't belong to the adjacent resident. They belong to the Borough. Your property ends at the Right-Of-Way line. The sidewalk, curb, parking space, street, etc. are owned and maintained by the Borough. I truly think this whole ordiance is illegal in some fashion. If the Hudson Street residents are the ONLY PEOPLE ENTITLED to those parking space, than they should PAY ADDITIONAL TAXES for maintenance of their newly priviledge property. I sure as hell don't think the rest of the tax payers should be flippin' the bill to plow and clean your "newly ordained private street". I don't know, maybe I'm just jealous…
But Padrone,
You don't shop here. You drive to the mall, the Grove, Target, Best Buy, etc.
Why don't you walk?
I don't care if the BMW's and Mercs want to come to Red Bank, pay for parking and spend in our stores. It keeps the business property values up. The more business ratables the less the residential has to cover our tax exempts.
The lack of parking affects property values in the downtown, causes spread of parking into residential areas, and adversely affects my quality of life (can't get my leaves up, my gutters swept, my snow plowed). If the town had put up a garage way back when thje RBC kids would use it, the downtown employees would use it, we might even get a postal worker or two to use it. All out of towners paying us for the priviledege without parking in front of my house. Other town make money with garages (Princeton, Summit) why can't we??
Princeton does not make money with its garage. The money that comes in from parking does not cover the debt service on the garage (even ignoring the cost of the land it sits on). Read more on page 88 of http://nnj.uli.org/Content/NavigationMenu19/RelatedLinks/final_july3106.pdf
Summit does not have any garages for shoppers. They do have lots for shoppers and garages for downtown employees and resident commuters. I wasn't able to get reliable information on the financing of parking garages in Summit.
The long end of the muni curve is not exactly that friendly right now for floating a bond to finance a garage. And to Dan's point, the revenue will never cover the services. However, the relative value can not be looked at in this narrow of a scope. I spend a decent amount of time in West Chester, PA. I think that the garage in WC contributes to the vibrancy of the town. It is worth at least debating and perhaps taking it to the next level in the form of a feasibility study.
I won't support any garage that increases the size of the town's budget or reduces revenues.
If a developer wants to create a garage downtown, and it doesn't involve too many variances, the free use of public land, or any favorable tax treatment, I still won't like it, but I guess I'd have to live with it.
But no developer is willing to do it, because it would lose money, even if the town gave them the land for free.
The council looked at the feasibility in 2005, and was ready to build a garage over the White St. parking lot. A firestorm of public opposition stopped them.
Actually Dan,
There was no "firestorm" in 2005. The Council itself nixed the idea after the former CFO made a $5 million error in revenue projections in the 17th year. Councilwoman Beck jumped on it and raised the spector of possible other mistakes in the pro-forma.
If anyone was at the Coucil meeting, they would have heard the Mayor and coucil members question almost every postal employee if they would be willing to pay for parking. All of them said they would at a reasonable price. The mayor asked the question if the postal workers were willing to pay $4 or $5 dollars a day. (could be $100 or more a month..because some employees work 6 days a week..I think that is to much money). The one employee came right out and asked if the mayor was talking about the parking garage and he said "No"..(we knew that was what he was implying. It alway comes back to the parking garage.)
I repeat:
I was sad earlier this month to see the parking garage "solution" to Red Bank's parking "problem" return as a topic for reconsideration. I was more irritated than sad to see the comments made in the APP that the lack of parking spaces had been documented.
The problems that businesses in downtown are having are complex but I only have time for some simple comments. Downtown businesses are having problems because of high rents, a disfunctional mix of stores, increased competition from other communities, the traditional American distaste for walking more than a block from a parking space, meters that demand having just the right amount of change, high parking tickets,and perhaps from a downturn in the economy in NJ.
Building a parking garage on White Street will not solve the economic woes of downtown merchants. It would increase traffic in the core of the city, thus making shopping in Red Bank inconvenient. It would leave all the other other lots at the edge of downtown with even more empty spaces than they currently have. It could lead to increased cost for Red Bank residents, who seem reluctant to support expenses for a parking garage to support, and therefore in effect subsidize, landlords who seem to be profiting quite well–at least for the time being.
I encourage everyone who feels the way I do to call and write our council representatives and to keep the pressure on. I encourage everyone to let Pat Menna know that we support other kinds of efforts to keep downtown vibrant.
Actually "Why Us", you are helping make my point. Even though I do shop here (what little is left for a non-size-two), of course everyone drives to supermarkets and malls and other shopping areas.
But when we drive to Monmouth Mall, for example, do we get to park immediately in front of The Disney Store? Of course not. It might require WALKING hundreds of yards to get from parking to a particular store.
Or maybe there isn't enough here for the average person to want to walk to. Because people sure don't mind walking a long way to get to the fireworks display, the street fairs, the restaurants, Count Basie Theater shows.
Saying Red Bank doesn't have enough parking is a politically driven urban myth. And I would suggest our love of writing parking tickets has more to do with dissuading visitors than any other single factor.
Just to correct a few blatent errors posted here recently…. The post office is not a "Quasi government service organization"
It is a branch of the federal government. You can requst changes to the P.O., but any change will not come because of a local government decision. Sorry if somebody here thinks that is "obnoxious", but you cannot change the fact that the Federal Government is not controlled by local government decisions. Ask New York about it's airline "Bill of Rights" that was passed in the state, and overturned in a higher court for just that reason!
Red Bank does not handle any mail for Little Silver.
As for the Abbot Grants,I'm not sure how they are funded. Perhaps getting the Board of Ed and recreation dept.to stop including Middletown in it's mailings would help. It's a waste of time and money. They have requested that the mailings that are addressed to Middletown be returned to them, but they are still paying for the printing and the postage on them!
just how many parking lot spaces does Red Bank have and how many street metered spaces does it have.
I would wager enough, and then I would say look to all of the stores that have closed due to HIGH RENT, and not lack for lack of parking. I challenge any council member to walk with me through the streets of Downtown, and I will show you empty spots all over the place (a lot of empty stores, final sale days, and then walk all over the borough and show I will show you how many for sale signs on homes are out there. ITS NOT THE GAD DARN LACK OF PARKING, ITS THE HIGH RENTS AND THE HIGH TAXES (MISMANAGMENT THAT IS THE ROOT TO THIS. I just do not understand what the council members don't get, Someone once posted on here that we elect the brightest people to sit on the council. Sometimes (all of the time)? I wonder about that comment. Being a lawyer doesn't make you smart, having good para legals to do your research is what counts. Having a successful builder on the council doesn't make him the best choice either. If they were that smart they perhaps would have seen and said long ago about how the failing infrastructure of the borough could not sustain the new buildings/little city, or had the library done on time, a whole slew of things could have been done differently by these 'clever' peoples and saved us all money. Maybe Grace could have seen the shut down of the housing market coming and advised against different avenues the borough could or should not have taken. Thing is, it all roots back to the parking garage, Is someone on the take here, why keep pushing it, there is no need, none.
and as for Hudson Avenue, RBG, please do drive byes on there several times a day and see how empty it is. Permit parking only….is that legal?
Damn I'm going to miss you curley
No firestorm? I guess you weren't at the council meeting where 150 or so residents turned up to oppose the garage. http://hub.gmnews.com/news/2005/0728/Front_page/001.html
At that meeting, Mayor McKenna said he had gotten some offers from private developers, and they wanted to table the proposal until they had talked to the developers. Of course, none of them worked out, because a parking garage is not profitable.
The 2001 garage proposal brought 100 people to the council meeting, too, so I think Menna has figured out that the parking garage is the political third rail in Red Bank.
I'm also standing by my "quasi-governmental" characterization of the USPS, though. Congress gave up control of the USPS in 1970. The USPS characterizes itself this way: "The United States Postal Service® is an independent establishment of the Executive Branch of the United States Government. It operates in a businesslike way."
I do think it's true, though, that the USPS is not going to start providing parking for employees just because a borough council says it should. However, the Postmaster was incorrect in stating that there was a USPS policy against it. From the USPS Web site (http://www.usps.com/employment/value.htm): "parking privileges are available in some locations nationwide."
When asking about whether employees would be willing to pay $5/day, perhaps the mayor was thinking of the underutilized Globe Ct. garage, which charges $5/day, and is about 5 blocks from the post office.
Dan..read it carefully about the parking. "parking privileges are available in some(the key word is some)locations nationwide"..It's the Postal Employees responsibilty to find parking!!! It is not the responsibility for the USPS to find parking for their employees. It does'nt say the USPS is required to find parking.
The USPS Web site says that in some sites, the USPS provides parking as a benefit to employees. According to the Asbury Park Press, Postmaster "Nara said post office policy considers parking to be the responsibility of the employee."
It would be more accurate to say that USPS provides parking for employee in some locations, and not in others. In the case of Red Bank, apparently the USPS provides some parking for employees, but not enough for all employees.
If the Press statement is accurate, it sounds to me like the Postmaster was trying to convince the Council that his hands were tied by USPS policy, and they're not.
It will *not* take an act of Congress for the Red Bank Post Office to provide parking for its employees. Certainly the USPS would prefer not to provide parking, but they do provide it in some cases.