The homepage of the borough website.
The Red Bank government's plan to hire web design and management firm C3 Citizen Communication Center for $2,000 a month appears to be in slow-download mode following a second round of criticism.
At the borough council's bimonthly meeting last night, information technology specialist Jim Willis of Harrison Avenue characterized the model used by C3 as a "roach motel for data," in which information such as council agendas is entered but can't be shared across new technologies, such as Google calendar and news sources such as redbankgreen.
[Disclosure: Willis provides tech services to redbankgreen and its companion site, Red Bank oRBit.]
Willis said the deal would also shackle the borough to a vendor for the term of a contract and force it to build its website anew if the contract isn't extended.
"Proprietary software is synonymous with vendor lock-in," Willis said. Under the proposed deal, the borough wouldn't own the software but have a license to use it, and "if the borough wants to change vendors in the future, we will be right back where we are today, except we'll be tens of thousands of dollars poorer."
No one from C3 was present at last night's session. C3 provides web management services for Fair Haven and Middletown.
At her final appearance as a borough councilmember last month, Republican Grace Cangemi excoriated the C3 deal as the product of talks that she had not been party to or aware of, even though she was a member of the education and technology committee that was making the recommendation.
Willis, too, noted that C3 "was chosen in a closed process, without a formal request for proposals" from competing vendors. Borough officials said the job was exempt from bidding requirements, and cited the fact that C3 principal John Carino has a patent on web-based citizen email alerts as a reason to go with his firm.
Willis didn't address the alert system component, but focused on what he views as the pluses of open source software over licensed proprietary technology such as C3's.
The idea of open source software that can be shared by users without violating license agreements is gaining traction at the federal and state level, he said.
Willis questioned why New Jersey's 566 municipalities should pay for the same software over and over again "when it could be built once and shared among those municipalities at no cost other than the initial development cost."
"This line of questioning may not make sense to software developers looking to profit at the taxpayers’ expense," he said, "but it does make perfect sense to taxpayers."
In response, Mayor Pasquale Menna said that while the council had approved a resolution allowing the borough to enter into a contract with C3, no deal had yet been signed. He said he would review the matter and consult with borough Attorney Ken Pringle.
Councilman Art Murphy was more emphatic. "My understanding is we had a lot of questions and weren't going to execute that agreement at all," he said.
Afterward, redbankgreen asked Councilwoman Kathy Horgan, who heads the education and technology committee, if the C3 deal would be signed.
"It's still in discussion," she said.
And did she have misgivings about the way in which the deal came about?
"It's still in discussion," she repeated.
Here's the website resolution: Download 08-265.pdf
This would be an excellent project for high school students to work on with a June deadline.
Perhaps the winners (if it were to be set up as a competition) can earn college credits or some other incentives? At the very least, it could certainly be included on their resume, right?
Maintaining a website is similar to filing a tax return. Some people find it extremely complicated and pay big bucks for it while others find it relatively easy and do it themselves…
Let's give our Students a shot at this!
This council is backpedaling. Councilwoman Horgan says the deal is "still in discussion." "Still" is an overstatement. The deal may be in discussion now, but prior to this public outcry, there was no discussion with the public or any non-insider. Despite my objections as a council member about the lack of an open bid process, private meetings with the vendor from which I, a member of the Education & Technology Committee, was excluded, and excessive cost, Democrat Councilpeople Horgan, Lee, Murphy and Dupont VOTED TO EXECUTE THE AGREEMENT. Mayor Menna also expressed his support. This resolution was put on the agenda and approved without workshop and without ANY discussion within the E&T Committee. I am relieved that voters are putting the pressure on this council to rethink backroom deals and hopeful that taxpayers will continue to monitor this single-party council for more of the same. We simply can't afford no-bid contracts, back room deals, and higher spending. I commend Mr. Willis and the other members of the public who have stood up to this governing body and demanded accountability on this issue.
Mr. Willis makes good points. But let's keep in mind this is much more than just designing the website. As Joe Mizzi says, even high school students can do that. We also want the emergency notification system that C3 has. If there is free software that can do that, let's use it! And it should be possible for the Borough personnel to maintain the website (adding agendas and meeting minutes and stuff like). We don't want to outsource that function.
accountability for the McKennacrat Empire? don't make me laugh.
Right on Jim!
Using open source software the borough would have an internet setup that just about anyone who's internet-savy could setup or tweak.
This would result in a lower cost of maintenance, more flexibility and better integration with other (already in use & up and coming) internet software.
Jim Willis did a great job expressing concerns for this agreement in a logical and educated manner. Hopefully the mayor and council were not just giving the Jim and everyone in the crowd lip service.
I wish the mayor and council would ask the residents of this town for input before an oridance goes up to vote-any ordinance that would cost the taxpayers NEW money. Shrewsbury sent out a survey to ask their residents about building new sidewalks and based their decision using feedback from their residents.
I don't want to feel as if I am only asked my opinion as an after thought or because it has to be asked legally. I want to feel as if my opinion matters. And as was witnessed from last night's council meetings, that group of 7 does not have all the answers. Why not ask for input from the residents so they don't have to carry all the resposibility when something that no one wants is unanimously approved.
Three problems with having a high school kid set up an emergency notification system.
First, I wouldn't be happy to have an emergency system designed by an amateur. How would it be tested?
Second, who would maintain the system? How would it be tested periodically? Who would manage add/drops?
Third, whose phone lines would you dial out on? Boro Hall's? A notification to all residents would tie up their paltry number of phone lines for hours, during which time no other calls in or out of the borough hall would be possible. Kind of a problem in an emergency. And if the emergency happens to affect the Verizon CO (down by the post office), the lines are gone anyway.
The emergency notification systems (at least the good ones) can reach thousands of people in minutes, not hours.
I'm all for amateur hour when it comes to the Web site, but an emergency notification system should be handled by professionals with a robust phone infrastructure.
C3's price seems high, but I don't know what the system does.
What type of emergency are you referring to? I can't think of anything that would require contact to hundreds within minutes.
Remember a few years back when the town's routine water testing revealed contamination in the water supply? St. James parents got the word around 11:00 in the morning, but most of the town only found out after 4:00, when borough vehicles were driving up and down the street, using loudspeakers to advise us to boil our water. That was too late for me; I'd already had several glasses of water by then.
Ironically, by 4:00 the boro had figured out that it was a testing error, and there was no contamination, but the guys on the trucks didn't know yet.
A system like C3's would have gotten the false alarm out faster, and gotten the corrected information out faster, too.
Remember when the power went out a couple of weeks back? Wouldn't it have been nice to get a call telling you what was up?
And it would be handy in passing along warnings from the government that it's time to duct-tape your windows.
I can see non-emergency uses for it, too: it's raining too hard for the Halloween parade or a Council meeting has been canceled due to lack of interest.
And how about using it to notify emergency responders instantly? Then maybe we could replace the sirens….
But perhaps you should take your question to Councilwoman Horgan, or maybe Mayor Menna.
Those are some interesting reasons…the first was from 4 years ago and turned out to be nothing, the next was a power outage that would probably have kept most household cordless phones that require electricity from ringing anyway, and the third was a government notice to duct tape my windows?? Seriously. I think you just proved why this could easily be a high school computer project.
Does anybody know how much the reverse 911 system costs? Other towns around here use it for both emergency and non-emergency notifications.
Listen to what Grace is saying. The only Ropublican on the council was shut up a week before being "out". By the way, she was also shut out about the Council members who are taking health insurance. Nice job Red Bank voters. You have screwed yourselves.
All a HS student has to do is create an email listserve in Yahoo or Google to get emails out. As for the phone calls, who answers calls from strange numbers these days anymore anyway? A sneaky waste of taxpayer funds is what it sounds like.
For those interested, I've posted a transcript of the talk I gave at the council meeting. It is a largely un-edited copy of the notes I used to draft the talk I gave.
You can read it over here: http://jimwillis.org/post/70441540/council-talk-on-opensource
Thanks for the supportive comments! I've also forwarded a copy of the transcript on to Councilperson Horgan (who chairs the Education and Technology Committee).
Very nicely stated Jim. Thank you for speaking up on behalf of the taxpayers.
Jim, clear statement of the issues. Thanks for bringing these to the attention of the citizens and our council.
Having spent time in the software business, one issue that I find hampers the success and cost effectiveness of a software system is the lack of clear requirements. Costs vary significantly depending on these requirements. And requirements extend beyond the intial design and content to ongoing updates, maintenance and, in this particular design, outgoing communications. Another reason to have the requirements clearly specified is to ensure that you are delivered what was contracted. In this case, are there a clear set of acceptance and performance criteria for the system
I do not know if there is a comprehensive statement of requirements that were presented to the developer in order to attain a cost estimate.
I also wholeheartedly agree with the risk of using proprietary software systems because of long-term maintenance issues. Are there any limits on ongoing maintenance costs? What if the developer goes out of business? Do we start over? Do we get the original system sofware?
If the horse is not already out of the barn, I would encourage the committee to ensure that the system is well specified, acceptance and performance are stated, and that the needs of the population have been taken into account.
do I see egg smeared upon council members faces????
Jim, thanks for posting your statement! I'm all for lowering costs by sharing services across municipalities. Are you aware of any open source software that would be comparable to what C3 provides in terms of emergency communication? It seems that's their real strength. If another developer wanted to emulate that functionality, wouldn't they have to license that process from C3, since it's patented?
I have taken a look as well at what C3 offers, and it seems to be a lot more than a website design company. I concur with Boris above that C3 does have a strong communication presence. Isn't the web another form of communication as well?
I took the time to register for an account in Nutley, one of C3's other clients, and as a concerned citizen and taxpayer, their portal is very interesting.
From what i see, it appears C3 is a website development company, host, service request system, notification company, recreation program company and a few other things as well. C3 also has one registration, for all it's services.
I'm all about lowing costs, but as a small business owner, if you can get all those things in one system, done well, there are advantages to that.
if you have to contract with 10 different companies to get the benefits of what one provides, I don't think that's desirable. Not to mention you hold one company responsible. More companies, more issues, more finger pointing. There is also value to information in one system. I wish quick books and microsoft integrated, it would make my life easier at the office.
I agree, lowing costs is priority and i don't know what the market costs are for these things, however, i'm hopeful that the public and governing body didn't just look at price. Afterall, 24k is alot of money, but not if it costs 50k to get all these offerings from multiple companies to achieve the same objective.
i'm just a small business owner looking to save money as well, so that's my two cents.
Jack
Jim, do you have any examples of towns that have hired companies that subscribe to your open software model, how the towns have benefited, and what the cost is?
Jim,
Didn't you submit a proposal as well to Red Bank for these services? I thought i read somewhere the cost of your proposal was 18k? Did we get any feedback on your open source model proposal?
Did your proposal also include all the items that C3 offers?
I also heard that C3 has a full blown GIS system and mapping Technology along with Special Needs registration so first responders can assist the disabled in times of emergencies.
I also think the automatic complaint and service request system and notification piece would be a huge benefit to Red Bank that C3 was offering as well.
It appears the C3 platform integrates with these open source technologies that Jim mentions, including the calendar, check out their portal in Nutley.
Please find out if anyone out there knows of an open source solution that bridges all these technologies so that we can do a cost benefit analysis.
And more importantly a firm versed in all those open source technologies, that is skilled to bring them all together in one application, design, develop, manage, maintain and support them for the Borough.
It appears at least from the C3 interface, that they integrate with google, facebook, and a host of other open source technologies. Has anyone discussed this with C3? If price is an issue, maybe we can do without some of these other C3 citizen benefits and get a cheaper price if that's what concerns everyone.
Jim, what's your opinion on this? Do you think it would be worthwhile for C3 to come in and do a demonstration to Red Bank for all us to see?
As for a high school student developing an emergency alert system, that's about as crazy an idea i've heard in a long time. I think someone posted that, i would say to them, definitely stay out of the emergency services business.
My recommendation is to tell C3 if they're so confident in their application, implement it, no strings attached, let the governing body and citizens review. That would cost us nothing and we can really see if it works for us, if it does, great, if it doesn't, the borough hasn't lost a dime.
There are some really excellent questions raised on this comment thread. Imagine if the education and technology committee convened in a public forum where these questions could have been asked by citizens! Absent that sort of transparent and accountable government, we've got Red Bank Green.
I've replied to a few of the commenters above privately via email but think answers to some of the questions raised above warrant a more public forum so I'll draft something for posting here over the next few days. Apologies for not being able to get a response up immediately but I'll get something posted as soon as my other obligations allow. Thanks for your patience and thanks for being interested.
Kudos to Jim Willis for calling this to our attention. I'm sure there are a good number of residents qualified to provide expert opinions in this area. I'm interested in the criteria the council used to make their decision, and what expert opinion(s) they secured, and which vendors they spoke to before deciding to lay out taxpayer money. This transparency issue just won't go away.
Jim, when speaking of open source here, did you have something like Asterisk in mind: http://asterisk.org/?