Councilman Mike DuPont at Democratic HQ on election night.
[Editor's note: This article was updated at 12:27p with a statement from Kim Senkeleski]
A count of disputed ballots from last week’s election for two Red Bank council seats yesterday resulted in a widening of the leads of incumbents Art Murphy and Mike DuPont, officials say.
Borough officials say the numbers are final, and show that the Democrats beat back challenges by Republicans Kim Senkeleski and Rob Lombardi.
After the inclusion of the provisional ballots — votes cast in cases where the voter’s eligibility or residence was in doubt, mostly — DuPont remained the top vote getter, with 1,521, and Lombardi finished out of the money with 1,382.
At issue in the count was whether Senkeleski had overtaken Murphy. But the count widened in Murphy’s favor, as he picked up 20 votes from the provisionals, giving him a total 1,507, and Senkeleski added nine, putting her tally at 1,464, according to data distributed by the borough clerk’s office.
In a prepared statement sent to redbankgreen and other media, Senkeleski says:
I just wanted to let you all know that I did get in touch with the county this morning and will not ask for a re-count based upon the provisional ballots counted.
Rob and I will continue to attend council meetings and push some of the ideas we presented on our web site that received positive feedback during our campaign from residents in town.
Murphy and DuPont say they’re satisfied that the election is over. At last night’s borough council meeting, each thanked voters for re-electing them, and made a point of nodding to their opponents.
“I want to thank Kim Senkeleski and Rob Lombardi for running an issue campaign,” DuPont said.
Here’s the complete tally, which shows district-by-district results for all races from governor on down. 2009-general-election-results (You’ll need Adobe Reader to view the document; it’s free, and downloadable here.)
OK, so you got in. So the challengers ran an ‘issue’ campaign. What kind of campaign did the incumbents run exactly?
Wish I was on the bus you sent around canvassing the west side for easy dem votes, just to hear the propaganda. But let me check myself here, it’s not propaganda, it’s actually truth. Did you promise to turn a blind eye to legal status? Did you tell them you’d make sure they could overcrowd the schools? Did you tell them the taxes paid by actual citizens will pave the way, and that they could count on our ridiculous, socialist, politically correct liberal BS.
If there is no corruption/malfeasance associated with these council seats, then why such an interest in the position? You guys both own houses here, and it’s overrun and being wrecked, and you’re leading the charge down the drain. I don’t get it.
I know diversity. I love diversity. What we have is not diversity. What we have is one group of irrespectful, exclusionary, self-interested individuals who care little for the common good, and a group of politicians who exploit them to gain power.
Now:
- Lower my taxes
- Get rid of the illegals
- Stop destroying the character of my town with overdevelopment
- Stop destroying the underlying infrastructure of my town with overpopulation
- Make this a town of homeowners, not irresponsible, loser, transients
And I won’t organize a revolt.
pension man,
Are you saying that Murphy, DuPont, Senkeleski and Lombardi are only interested in the position because of corruption/malfeasance? Murphy has another clear motive for running: $18,000 in health insurance.
You also seem to be implying that Murphy and DuPont got elected by catering to illegals. But illegals can’t vote. Or did I misunderstand? Who is the “group of irrespectful, exclusionary, self-interested individuals”?
I like your goals, though.
Dan - we all see what’s going on in town. I can see Kim and Rob’s motivation for running, our town is being RUINED and they live here and don’t like it. I don’t see what Art and Mike have to gain by continuing to destroy the town, so I don’t trust them. My comment was directed at the incumbents, not generally at all politicians, though it may well apply.
Maybe it’s for the health benefits, maybe Dupont is riding on taxpayer backs at the state level, I don’t know. I think it’s a shame to do this to a town just for benefits. And why are the other council seats unanimous? I’m not buying into claims that they’re doing what they think is best for this town. If they believe that, then they’re simply inept.
The aforementioned group of exclusionary, self-interested, irrespectful, etc. individuals are the “minority” population, who seem to have no regard or respect for anything in my experience.
And yes, illegals can’t vote, but the game in this town is every legal has 15-20 friends that hang out at the train station and at wawa, have dozens of kids, and send those kids to our schools, and we pay for it. All while using infrastructure that we pay for. It’s those here legally that are harboring the illegals that are bussed to the polls like sheep and exploited. And yes, we know it’s an issue, and no, we won’t do anything about it because it keeps the incumbents in power.
One would expect a police commissioner who’s benefits are on the taxpayer dime would do something more. But therein lies the conflict of interest.
By the way, I’ve been playing with the numbers some. They don’t seem to show a very effective get-out-the-vote campaign on the West Side. The 3 districts on the West Side (6, 8 and 9), had the lowest voter turnout. And the only district that is entirely on the West Side, District 9, had a turnout of only 33%, way below the other districts. (And 79% of District 9 voted Democrat.)
The top 3 districts in terms of turnout went Republican for both Council and Governor. (All had turnouts over 50%.)
The bottom 3 districts went Democrat for both Council and Governor.
I’d say the results indicate the Dems need to work harder on getting out the vote, particularly on the West Side.
Have you talked to legals in town? My experience has been that recent Americans don’t feel any kinder towards illegals than people born here. But I admit I haven’t spoken to all that many. I don’t think recent Americans is a significant voting block here in town. But I don’t know how I could find out if I’m right. Anyone out there have the facts on this?
Are you saying that the Democratic machine knows where recent Americans live and sends buses to pick them up?
Did you mean to say that non-whites have no regard or respect for anything, or did you mean just Latinos?
When the incumbents say “We won” they are not talking about the residents, they are talking about the entrenched political law firms in the Tomatocratic machine.
Just take your anger out against Pallone next year.
..angry mob supplies for sale….
Dan - yes, I’ve talked to the ‘legals’ in town, and my experience has been quite the same as yours. There is a polarization, just like the upstanding members of any ethnic background want to distance themselves from the less palatable members.
I’ve made the assertion that we have no diversity in this town, we’re just overrun with Mexicans, and I’m waiting to be proven wrong. Does anyone have any data more recent than the 2000 census?
OK, so back to the point of this article, maybe I’m sour grapes. Maybe I’m a sore loser. Maybe. But I’ve got NO representation on council, and neither does 48% of the town. That’s just wrong.
Do you think that a newer census would prove anything..do you think that the illegals would want to be counted go to the primary school and look at the ratio.
if there were no illegals in town they would have to close the schools… its an outrage what happened to red bank.
El rojo Banco del Rojo Tomato
Pension Man:
Your slander is outrageous.
If you don’t think it’s slander then post your real name and say which specific council members are corrupt.
*slander* does not apply to criticizing public office holders…unless you grew up in China? I’m “shocked and appalled” by such intolerance to public criticism. If you can’t take the heat as *officials*, then resign.
Interesting sidenote in this cluster fudge: According to the PDF, Christie won Red Bank by 2 votes.
Dear Pension man,
You are a very sick person who needs help.
Slander does not apply to opinions. So we’re all free to say an elected official is doing a terrible job.
However, accusing someone of a crime is not “criticizing” a public official.
From Wikipedia:
“The four (4) categories of slander which are actionable per se are (i) accusing someone of a crime….”
“for a public official … to win a libel case, the statement must have been published knowing it to be false or with reckless disregard to its truth…”
So the question is whether accusing a public official of corruption without a shred of evidence is “reckless disregard.” I’d say so, but I’m not a lawyer.
I am sorry, but I still fail to see where anyone is accused of a crime? maybe I missed it…
“If there is no corruption/malfeasance associated with these council seats, then why such an interest in the position?”
here are four elements a person must establish in order to prove he or she has been defamed: (1) Publication, (2) Identification, (3) Harm and (4) Fault.
#2 is key here, when some people say “identify yourself” or “anonymous coward”. Some Lawyers will maliciously sue for libel even if they know they ultimately have no case. Their connected law firms will do it pro-se (free) to subdue and silence perceived opponents and critics into financial stress and censorship through litigation. A form of Slapp suit which I believe is popular in NJ since the public is rarely if ever protected by the partisan courts.
Therein lies the problem when people vote for attorneys and law firms for public positions- its the conflict of interest. A practicing attorney and law firm who’s clients are developers, construction workers, and other attorneys or public officials as clients who also hold power in different townships or counties, is a perpetual conflict of interest with no balance. Add political leaders and bosses into this formula who have influence with the partisan courts and ethics boards, the picture gets a little dim for democracy in NJ. Law firms make money trough legal fees and contracts, most lucrative are construction and development contracts in our region. Therefore it is beneficial for law firms of seperate townships and counties to not only hold all the cards in public offices but to also cooperate with other law firms to watch their back in order to feign *no conflict of interest* . This is not saying that all lawyers are bad as some may be good to hire. But to vote for practicing attorneys into power positions is not a good idea IMO. Leadership for the people should be by the people for the people. Hire a lawyer for the dirty work and legalese. After all isnt that what an elected lawyer does anyway?
Nice outrage Mr. Kevin Donohue. . . but wrong. Nemo is quite right. Not a single individual has been mentioned as having been involved in any crimes, malfeasance or corruption in the post you find outrageous. So if the “council seats” want to sue, they certainly may; the behinds in them would have no case based on what has been said.
I see questions being asked by a frustrated voter, why the alarmist response?
Dare I say the alarmists are council supporters? That seems the likely deduction, as one may further conclude the party faithful are sure to continue their usual and customary advantages, what ever those advantages may be…..
…oh, and T-Sauce, didn’t we have one of those slap suits just a few years back from that fly-by-night Parking Tsar against Freeholder John? Oh, that was a clever move really – very well orchestrated and so very well publicized; I see it put the antagonist well past these local RB problems altogether as well. Clever maneuver to be sure.
What are you insinuating, Nemo? Advantages?? I’ll SUE!!!
Seriously, though (and Kevin’s rhetoric aside), can someone honestly say that this town is heading “forward”, given our current trajectory? It’s been a long-standing and conspicuous silence regarding the issues I’ve detailed above. Call it my 5 point plan if you will. There’s certainly more to address, like brown water and pension obligations, but let’s start with the more egregious wrongs being done to residents.
It’s laughable, and my questions still stand, unanswered. My opinion doesn’t matter, neither does half the town’s.
But it’s all good, I’ve learned to lower my expectations, bend over, and pay. All the while my opinion being called outrageous and slanderous. By the way, genius, it’s libel when it’s written, slander when spoken.
From the response I’m getting, I suppose you’re all perfectly happy with our overlords. OK, fine, pass that kool-aid my way then. Apathy is just so much easier.
…apathy with a for sale sign in my yard….
nemo-just sell already and move on with your life.
we have heard that you are selling for some time now and that you are just so unhappy here in red bank. so just do it and complete one thing in your life for god’s sake.
resident,
I’m sick and need help? Please enlighten me as to which of my points you are in disagreement.
Sign just went up.
“Let Them eat cake”
nemo-EXCELLENT! let us know when you are going. Have fun tramping on the next town you move to. Once a complainer, always a complainer.
Yes Mr. Nemo, I share some of your concerns, but you are not as smart as you think. Infact you are a lonely jerk.
…given all the material out there on my moniker, if lonely jerk is the best you could do, well then you best change your name to just plain…. “sad”…
What does your name have to do with it ?
I was tring not to be harsh,or vulgar.
Yeah, you #&c%i&@ A**#o&e !
I’d like to get back to Pension Man’s five requests:
- Lower my taxes
- Get rid of the illegals
- Stop destroying the character of my town with overdevelopment
- Stop destroying the underlying infrastructure of my town with overpopulation
- Make this a town of homeowners, not irresponsible, loser, transients
Here’s my thinking:
Lower Taxes: This really means cutting costs. Which means cutting services. What services are we willing to give up? I’d be willing to go to once-a-week trash pick-up. What other suggestions do people have?
Illegals: Not much the town can do about this directly.
Overdevelopment: This is definitely where I feel most at odds with the council. I’ve been feeling that projects approved over the last couple of years are too big (that monstrosity on Wallace looms like a bad joke over the Broad St buildings as you drive down White). But the rules are getting looser.
Overpopulation: I think control on development will help.
Home ownership: I’d like to see more people own their homes, too. How can the town encourage that? Could the town impose some kind of tax on landlords, but not homeowners? Make it really expensive to rent out a building, and landlords will dump their buildings, home prices will drop, and more people will be able to afford homes. Also, if we halt development, then people who want to own a home in Red Bank will have to buy a house instead of a condo.
It all seems to come back to development….
Why bash Nemo? Need a red herring to divert from the issues in this town? You guys are still 0 for 5 on my list.
Dan ably dredged up some prior discussion on the illegal issue with the piece done on Menna’s ’scarlet letter public list’ on slum lords. Many comments there were way more incendiary than my submissions here, so the disgust and angst at this situation was and is alive and well. Yet here we are a year later in reprise. Nothing done, nothing changed. Empty promises from ‘yes man’ Menna. That’s because, as the other commenters who understand the real issues posited, it’s not just the slum lords (sure, they’re an issue), it’s also the unilateral “open door” policy of the illegals themselves. They get in, and let others in unbeknown. And once they’re in, it’s impossible to get them out, even if you’re the landlord. I have a friend who’s a landlord in another town, and state law makes it all but impossible to evict.
We all know this is the genesis of many of our town’s issues. Council affirmed that with Menna’s resolution almost two years ago. So all the political paper pushing has gotten us nowhere, how do we actually solve this and get our town moving “forward” in a real sense? If council is admitting this is an issue, and it’s ILLEGAL, then how about enforcement? Where’s our benefit-clad police commissioner? Certainly he’s “working hard” on this issue, no?
Sorry, Dan, we posted at the same time. Thanks for the input and actually giving the issues some thought, instead of spewing rhetoric.
I don’t know how to play in this system, but can residents ban together and actually make a change?
What if a large number of us want to impose some development restrictions, do we put together a petition, or submit a resolution? What’s most likely not to get ignored or thrown out by council?
On Taxes: honest cost cutting is one part of the problem, honest revenue streams are the other. Once a week trash collection, only host “downtown” functions which actually financially support themselves, get rid of the brown water authority, actually enforce code and traffic violations (huge untapped revenue stream), close the library two extra days a week (or close it altogether, sell the land, & shift to using the Monmouth County one, or move it to a cheaper location), shutting down one or two firehouses, lose all the extra cars for town officials, lose all the free benefits for the firemen and make them a paid position w/ and auxiliary force, get the YMCA to reimburse the town for the recent & sneaky real estate transactions, the list is really only limited to one’s imagination.
On Illegals: if surrounding towns had similar issues, then we could say the problem is larger than RB – but since there do not seem to be similar issues in Middletown, Lincroft, Shrewsbury, LS, FH, etc, then I suggest RB has an internal issue – and it might be enhanced by a history of favoritism to certain landlords, etc. Overcrowding in the schools, in particular the free daycare (aka pre-kindergarten programs) is actually making the situation much worse – what I didn’t understand until this year was that the state funded pre-K programs actually support slumlords and their overcrowding tendencies. This issue requires creative thinkers – of which I am certainly not one.
On Overdevelopment: the single worst thing going on here in our TOWN. The current infrastructure can not support itself let alone new development. I am at a loss here.
A town of homeowners once existed here in RB, and we used to shop in town for things we actually needed and used. Those days are long gone, sad to say. Now we have to fight hard just to walk across the street safely, we have to mobilize simply to be able to ride our bikes in town undamaged – this is a sad state of affairs. but of course that is merely the opinion of a sad lonely jerk…..
IIRC, the YMCA is part of the public school pre-k expansion program. So should I assume that public school funds (a.k.a. tax dollars) are going to the YMCA to pay for the overage of pre-k students we can’t fit on public school grounds for this program? And where do you suppose all these little pre-k toddlers are coming from?
The Y seems to be in the center of many opportunist dealings here in town.
Pension man- since council will never listen or consider any petitions to restrict development plans already laid out for the years to come, voicing concerns to the opposition party and developing a strategy to end special interest motivated councils.
I have always believed that by destroying the middle class homeowner in order to support Coah- affordable housing is strategic racism/elitism. If there is no middle class dream, there is also no hope for minorities to better their lives as they are expected to live in affordable housing, controlled most probably by the developers and lawyers in their perfect world of planning.
Of course the middle class not able to afford homes anymore would be at the mercy of condos also in the control of the above.
There I believe is the grand vision of special interest groups; The rich and powerful connected political machine and cronies on one side, and the citizens struggling at their mercy on the other. If you’ve ever played the monopoly game, imagine hopping through the board , filled with buildings owned by special interest, then ask me how they make money.
Captain I don’t know everything about how the town works but I do know a few things. We do not own the library in fact it is owned by Princeton University, we can’t sell it. In my opinion we should not sell the water authority that seems to be the “honest” revenue stream (no pun intenteded)you crave. The water authority is profitable and is a defacto tax collecter from the many no profits. I cant tell you how many parking tickets my wife has gotten b/c she just had to run into my kids school b/c they were sick or whatever, but traffic rules are being enforced.
I dont know exactly how it works, but we are required to have x firehouses per square miles of town or population per our insurance carrier. Your idea to eliminate the benefits (you mean the $1000 per year) the firemant recieve and hire paid fireman doesn’t make sense.
I really don’t understand the ire that is directed at the YMCA its an organization that offers so much to the town. $99 a month for a family its a bargain.
Wally Street,
According to the tax records, the Red Bank Public Library (84 W. Front St.) is owned by the Borough of Red Bank.
That said, it is a great resource in this town. My family has taken out thousands (I’m not exaggerating) of books from that library. We can walk to the library and the librarians know us. If we change to the Monmouth County library system, there will be a $100 addition to each household’s tax bill. How does that compare to the savings from closing the library?
How can you question that people, Red Bank Residents, if banned together and united on a cause can make a difference! Look how close the council race was. That was because people DO want change, and not the kind that this council is providing. If all the people that comment on RBG got together for a cause, I doubt that people will come out against you. There will be another council election. Now is the time to start holding council members acountable. Remember…. watch what they do, not what they say.
If people have a concern, forget the petitions. Get a group of RB residents together, go to as many meetings as it takes and keep voicing your concerns. The media will pick up on it and help to carry your cause. You just have to keep on keeping on. Believe me I know!
As I recall, there is also a problem with joining the county library system because of the way the building was bequeathed to the town. I don’t think the town can do whatever it wants with that property.
I think the library gets plenty of use, and I would not like to see the hours cut any further.
As for the firehouses, we have 6 firehouses to cover 1.8 square miles. I find it hard to believe that we are required to have a firehouse for every 0.3 square miles.
Here’s an article (http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Fire-station-brown-outs-mulled-44573677.html) saying that San Francisco has a firehouse for every 0.9 square miles, and that is unusually high. Hard to believe we need triple the density of SF. Fair Haven is 1.7 square miles, and I think they have 1 firehouse.
Would closing firehouses save money, though? Who owns the property?
I certainly don’t begrudge the volunteer firefighters any of the benefits they receive, and I don’t see how hiring paid firefighters could save us money.
As for COAH killing housing for the middle class, that depends on what you mean by middle class. The income limit for an individual to be eligible for Affordable Housing in Monmouth County is $49,419 (http://www.state.nj.us/dca/affiliates/coah/reports/incomelimits.pdf). To me, that’s middle class.
I am sticking with Princeton owns the library it was donated to the university by the Eisner family. I dont know what the rules are about fire houses and population/sq miles but I do know that they exist. As for the taxes look at your bill about 23% is the town’s portion. It you have a house and are paying about $8,200 in taxes you pay about 2,000 to the town. I dont feel that $2,000 (166 a month) is alot to pay for parks, police and fire department. It does add up when you aggregate the charges for the Schools ( over 50%) and the county. I still wonder what I am getting for the $1100 per year I am paying. Holmdel Park?
Dan - you’re spot on again. The Eisner building was given to the town with specific instructions for it’s use as a library. http://www.lmxac.org/redbank/history_of_the_library_building.htm
On the fire station side of things, I know a few firefighters in neighboring towns and the sheer money dumped into shiny new Red Bank engines and other equipment is the butt of many a joke. I’m sure we could be doing more with our money than maintaining a firehouse every 0.3 miles. What are the fire related statistics in town? We should check the budget on this one.
Cindy - thanks for the words of encouragement. My phase of apathy is abating.
Wally,
I think the county paid for that new traffic light at White and Maple…..
Seriously, the county runs elections, courts, business registrations, mosquito eradication, and much, much more:
http://www.visitmonmouth.com/page.aspx?ID=1528
The fire companies are a very large voting block so they get what they want.
To Dan, Pension man,and the ever so wrong about most things she opens her mouth about,and should not comment on the tax dollars that are spent by RESIDENTS Cindy Burnham.
Please refrain from making comments about the Fire Dept and regulations concerning the same.
None of the three of you know anything about it. So until you get the facts try not to speculate on what is needed and what we have.
Thank you Wally Street for giving a honest answer regaurding the F.D.
By the way Big Mouth Burnham, we sure did have voting pull back in the days when you did nothing but bitch, and complain about the horns and amount of calls we responded to didnt we……
We certainly do not get everything we would like, but we have been very fortunate to get what we need over the past 137 years, Republican or Demacratic council at the helm.
Hey Jonny#5 Dan, why dont you do some research, and tell us what we have, what we need, and how much it would cost us to have a paid F.D.
By the way, Congradulations Westside Hose on your 100th anniversary.
Doing the job for free for 100 years.
Thank you and the other 5 Companies for doing it even longer…
I think RBFD does a great job and should be left to their devices even if they have angry trolls like “Informed” among their ranks. Some of the things put up on this website by members of RBFD or people who claim to be members are meathead masterpieces. With that being said, I appreciate the work they do and I am happy to support what ever it takes to keep the numbers up and the members happy.
“Informed” typifies the mentality of the near volunteer FD, with their plethora of Chief’s Ford Explorers, shiny new (and mostly unnecessary) equipment, and that of their principle henchman – Stan the Red-Faced-Multijobbed-Dweeb. This is the precise reason a professional FD is necessary – if for no other reason than to professionalize the force, streamline the procurement process, and make an inefficient politically motivated insider’s club into something noteworthy. I might add that a professional full-time FD will also (generally) decrease building insurance rates, increase compliance through inspections, and lower the long term costs relative (via consolidation) to the current associated dispersion of capital equipment hungry old-boys club. I know I’ll take the long knives for saying this, but it seems the FD fiefdom needs to take its hits just like the rest of the tax-sucking rat holes in this town.
The brown water authority needs to go too, in the name of efficiency and service – and cost (it is a backdoor tax at the moment). Charter School – gone. Library – gone. Council health benefits – gone. Fireboat – gone (along with those stupid nuisance fireworks – also gone). Nick’s near-private clay tennis courts – gone. Marine Park’s Jazz Fest – gone (unless it pays for itself completely). Santa’s party – gone (there is NO WAY this thing pays for itself). There are a whole host of ways to save money, it just takes the motivation and political will to make the difficult decisions – and this council, along with this mayor, I assure you, can not and will not make ANY of these hard choices.
… case and point… does the RB Charter School really need to “advertise” (here of all places) for its open house? No offense to Mr. Ward, but I hope that was pro bono…another RB institution run amuck.
Nemo, you forgot the Easter egg hunt.
I really find it hard to believe that paying professional firefighters would be cheaper than hiring volunteers. How many firefighters would we need on each shift? 10? Three shifts, that’s 30 firefighters. What would we pay them, $40,000? (Leaving them eligible for Affordable Housing.) Benefits cost another $20,000, that’s $60,000 per firefighter. Total annual cost: $1,800,000 per year.
Suddenly shelling out for the occasional shiny new truck doesn’t look so bad.
Informed,
Rather than berating us, why don’t you give us the correct information?
Nemo, I’m right with you with 2 exceptions - the library and the charter school.
For the library, I understand there’s not much we can do with the Eisner building other than use it as a library, and we’re not in the county system so we’re not taxed for membership. I like our library, and am there quite often. I want to understand a bit more how the library budget is arrived at, and why it seems we need so many librarians.
For charter, the argument is simple. I believe in choice and competition. A friend of mine got me a copy of ‘The Cartel’ which, for those not familiar with teacher’s unions or NJEA, is required viewing. Instead of bickering about the (albeit growing) municipal budget, we should be completely incensed at the nonsense and institutionalized corruption in these organizations.
as I’ve said many times, the largest impediment to educational reform is the teacher’s union. I like the idea of the charter school: as with many things it makes for good public policy discussion on economic choice theory, but in practice for a district so small, it makes for very large bills relative to that small student population. And the test scores (yet) simply don’t support the additional expense. As for the library, well didn’t we the tax payers just go and issue a rather substantial amount of bonds to cover refurbishment ad nausea over there? If it costs money, it can get the axe in my world. Alas, maybe we just lop off a librarian or three, triple the late fines, and make user’s pay for the services directly – you use it, you pay for it – the way it should be. I well understand the “public goods” arguments, but as a tax payer, that money is better spent elsewhere. As it stands now, if one wishes to join the county library, one may opt-in for a very reasonable fee. No reason why RB can’t adopt a similar model to offset costs – you would be surprised how much utility changes when a free good is no longer completely free (sort of like pollution and carbon credits). Alas, I have digressed long enough. At some point we should band together and go, line by line, through the municipal budget. I did this a few years back and was shocked at the tomfoolery.
Ya know, charter gets bashed here a lot, but just last week I found out that they do their thing for like 1/2 to 3/4 the public school budget, and no facilities budget. I wonder where the break even is in terms of students to cover the duplicate administration vs. public proper, I’ll bet it’s no more than a few classrooms. I’ll take that bet any day for the competition.
I agree with pay as you go for the library. My last late fee wasn’t worth the 5 minutes the librarian used to process it.
As for the municipal budget, I think it’s on our shiny new web site. Maybe I’ll print out a copy and head over to the pub. See you there.
Thing is, and I don’t mean to bash Charter too much, its just that the education budget is so completely OUT of taxpayers’ hands that Charter seems to be the only target that IS within the grasp – so to speak. That said, overall, I do not believe the rest of the RB school system would have budged had it not been for Charter – so it is a quiet victory. The bulk of the budget (the fun stuff anyway) is actually in those pesky nitty-gritty details – of course it would be better to see the “actual” spending numbers – that and salary information should be quite the rage down at the pub. Sláinte Mhath!
LordJohnWarfen would like to go on the record as saluting our volunteer fire Department.
They epitomize the spirit of volunteerism and community service.
As to number of firehouses relative to neighboring towns, one must recognize that RB’s firehouses are much smaller than our neighbors, our fire trucks are dispersed in more but smaller houses than out neighbors.
A comparison of number and types of apparatus relative to Fair Haven, Little Silver, Shrewsbury must consider this.
Anyone who volunteers the time and effort to be a fireman in our town deserves nothing but our gratitude.
A little more volunteerism in our town would do nothing but improve Red Bank.
LORDJOHNWARFEN YOU SAID IT BEST….BASH
VOLUNTEERS ….HOW SAD THESE MEN AND WOMEN GIVE UP ALOT OF THEIR TIME WITH THEIR FAMILIES….MAYBE SOME OF THE BASHERS SHOULD CHECK IT OUT BEFORE THEY SPEAK…I KNOW I WAS MARRIED TO ONE FOR MANY YEARS AND THERE WAS MANY A HOLIDAY AND FAMILY OUTINGS HE DID NOT SPEND WITH HIS FAMILY FOR HE WAS FIGHTING A FIRE..COMPLAIN ABOUT TAXES AND THEN ASK FOR A PAID FIRE COMPANY, PLEASE…..THINK
Per pupil cost for 2008-2009:
Red Bank School District: $14,693
http://www.state.nj.us/education/guide/2009/k-8.pdf
Red Bank Charter School: $13,598
http://www.state.nj.us/education/guide/2009/charter.pdf
To be honest, though, I’m not sure how those amounts are calculated.
Charter schools get 90% of the per-pupil cost of the district they’re in from the local tax levey, plus some state aid. In Abbott districts, the per-pupil amount apparently does not include Abbott aid, so they do have much less money to work with (though I haven’t heard that it was as little as 1/2).
It’s true that the district already owns its buildings\.
Interesting how everyone posting is limiting their comments to things which can have little or no impact on the tax bottom line. Dan said it quite correctly; he doesn’t see any logical place where meaningful cuts can be made. That’s because no one has the courage, at any level of government or public discourse, to speak to the ultimate money grabber in town. Red Bank, like most of New Jersey, gives our schools and education system a blank check. Any mention of looking for cost cuts in education (no matter how much is wasted in reality), will produce a firestorm of unbridled anger and venom.
And yet, where is our attention always directed? The Borough Council. The school board elections are a total after though; little voter turnout, no rigorous questioning of candidates . . . I’ll bet most Red Banker’s can’t name one member of that body unless it’s their sister. I would suggest that, until we are truly ready to tackle the unmentionables, the real cost centers, the taboo subjects, it’s all just bluster leading nowhere.
Dan, thanks for the citation. Very informative. I wonder how much the public school is getting in the facilities aid budget, and what the difference in admin salary overhead is.
Padrone, the same can be said at a number of relative levels of government. People come out to vote for the president, and have no clue about their district representation. People come out to vote local elections, yet fail to come out and vote in BOE elections. The only way to get meaningful change instituted in our school budgets is to get rid of the teacher’s union and the NJEA. If the investigative journalism done on the subject is true, the egregious wasteful practices are a complete outrage. Huge checks and Abbott aid go somewhere, but it’s certainly not to the kids. Christie needs to look at this straight away, since Corzine did absolutely nothing but throw more money at the lobbyists and claim to be “for education”. What a joke.
just looking at Dan’s numbers for per pupil costs
Red Bank School District: $14,693
Red Bank Charter School: $13,598
I’ll add it a few more known tuition costs:
St. James: $4,580
Holy Cross: $5,950
Rumson Country Day (tuition range): $14,175 to $19,400
Ranney (tuition range): $10,550 to $23,210
West Side Christian Academy – not readily available
Oak Hill Academy – not readily available
Seashore School & Camp (full year includes summer camp): $13,860
I wonder why it seems that the local private schools can offer much better academic reputations (I have no easy way to measure actual education quality) at considerably cheaper costs. Does any of this make sense?
Padrone, one more follow-on regarding the focus on council - at least the school budget stayed constant year over year, riddled with issues as it may be. The municipal portion of our taxes went up 8%. That’s a trend disturbing enough to start asking questions. Also, there’s a feeling that we’re able to effect some change locally, whereas the school issue is fighting a much larger and well-funded state level machine.
Captain Nemo,
I wonder what the tuition costs at those schools would be if they had to educate every child. I suspect that they don’t have any medically fragile students who require out-of-district placements and a full-time nurse, whose total cost of education is over $90K. I would guess that the private/parochial schools on your list (nor, for that matter, the RBCS) do not have a classroom for multiply disabled children. I doubt any of the schools listed have ELL students or special education students. But the RB Public School has all of that, and more that these schools don’t have to deal with.
Also, the RB Public Schools pays for the transportation for all of those kids attending those “inexpensive” private schools outside of Red Bank.
I would think it is obvious that comparing per-pupil costs in this way makes no sense.
a look at neighboring towns from Dan’s link:
Little Silver $12,451
Shrewsbury $13,065
Fair Haven $11,076
Rumson $11,831
Tinton Falls $14,126
West Long Branch $12,610
so our RB still leads w/ $14,693 - I guess all those free lunches to needy kids all add up!
A, you are making excuses for obvious differences. Clearly public schools have to deal with more outliers than private schools - clearly RB public schools have greater socio-economic outliers as well. My point, going back to budgets and cutting spending, is that the RB tax payer still suffers to pay all these huge expense. Something has to give at some point…..
Admin costs are in the reports I cited (see Indicator 8).
School District: $1,455 per pupil
Charter School: $2,612 per pupil
Free lunches are paid for by the USDA, so I’m prety sure they don’t appear in the Dept. of Ed’ per-pupil costs.
As A said, the higher per-pupil costs come from the extra effort necessary to educate the disabled and the disadvantaged.
Let’s compare our spending to other districts in the county where 75% of kids are low-income. Oh wait, there aren’t any.
Asbury Park: 69% low income, $24,428 per pupil
Long Branch: 61%, $15,369
Keansburg: 64%, $16,161
(Numbers are from 2007: http://www.state.nj.us/education/techno/teleact/year11/discount.htm)
It’s not a real apples-to-apples comparison, because the other districts have high schools, but Red Bank can legitimately claim to be dealing with a higher percentage of economically disadvantaged students than any district in the county.
Captain Nemo,
My point is that the schools are mandated to deal with many expensive situations (out-of-district placements for extremely disabled students, as one example). If you insist on cutting the budget, it is not these children who will have the services cut - they are protected by law. It is the regular kids who will lose out.
I know, I know. Everyone hates when the claim is “It’s all about the kids.” I just wanted to make it clear which kids will lose services when the budgets are cut.
Again, I want to fight this fight, but I’m not sure how. I believe in choice and competition, so I’m in support of charter, despite the fact that my kid didn’t get in. I like vouchers for the same reason. My naive hope is that one day I get to choose what I think is best for my kid, I’m already forced to pay so why not?
So how do we fight the bureaucracy and waste while fostering competition, and somehow get a focus back on the deliverable (educated children)? Whether you call it school choice or vouchers I don’t care, it’s the principle that I should not be held hostage to a self-interested state funded monopoly as a parent.
Not sure what the Obama ‘race to the top’ is going to do, other than mobilize a bunch of districts in search of more money to see what they need to do to game the system. If it’s certain test scores, then bet that your kids will be ‘taught to the test’, much like they currently are. This one dimensional thinking and is quite sad. I know more than some stuffed suit what kind of education I want for my kid. So why can’t I choose? Why can’t the best value in a free market rise to the top? This is, of course all rhetorical.
Ah, I’ve been through this too many times, just beating my head against a wall of money-grubbing organizations and lobbyists.
So be it! Let the kids suffer a little. Our brats need a wake up call. Kids in China are doing far better academically on far less financially. But enough of this, I am sure you are all tired of my nonsense – I know I am. This is all just ramblings from a peeved tax payer who feels that, for the taxes I pay here in RB – the services, and in particular, the schools are simply NOT worth it. Does anyone want to buy my house?
Yes, Dan, and now we come full circle to the original 5 point plan; overdevelopment, overcrowding, …
One day a young man happended across an older gentleman, who had taken to beating himself in the head with a club.
“Why do you do this?”, the young man inquired.
“Because it feels so good when I stop”, came the reply.
To all the regulars who post on this site who have it all figured out, why haven’t you run for elected positions here in town ?
I bet you spend more time here then you would have to spend taking care of town issues, and there is a benefit package too………. (Sorry. Uncalled for).
At times I have found myself most impressed by your opinions and intelect.
Some of what you have to say sounds correct,( I dont know, I am not as smart as all of you)but you really have nothing to offer us here.
How is this site going to teach my kids, plow the snow from my street,fix the pot holes,pick up my garbage,enforce the law,maintain my kayak launch,fight the fires,or come to my home to take me or a family member to the Hospital if needed.
How about you guys volunteer some of your time instead of bashing everything, and everyone. The Library, the Schools, The Fire Company/First Aid,or how about one of the boards, or commitees.
They all could probably use some help.
Yeah, at the very least Cindy goes to the Council meetings and can accuratly report what is going on, or what is being told to the public.
Bring it to the meetings. It will be covered and read by many.
I read RBG & other local media 80% more then I visit this blog.
I will normaly read the blog when I see a actual persons name in the new post area.(thats not often).
4 or 5 of you clog this blog with self righteousness, and much dislike for oposing opinion. You are a tiny, tiny, minority to the other 14,000 or so residents of the town.
Dan, I appreciate your willingness to fact find before posting. I have learned some stuff over the past few months that I would not have had the time to find on my own. Thank you.
I pay $182.00 a month to the Town for their cut of my tax dollars.
Maybe sometimes its our over extended morgages that result in misguided anger.
I don’t think that we can afford to give parents the option to have whatever kind of education they want for their kids. The goal of public education should be to provide an adequate education to allow children to become productive members of society.
It’s not even possible to please all parents. If I could make changes in the school district (where my kids go/have gone), it would be things like: less testing, more phys ed and more recess. But I don’t think those changes would meet with approval from other parents. I’d also like to have smaller classes, but I don’t think the taxpayers would support that.
So I think what taxpayers should support is an education that meets certain standards, set by our elected representatives on the School Board. Those that want something different should be free to go elsewhere, but not at taxpayer expense.
Don’t call school choice a free market if it’s funded by my tax dollars.
I’m happy with the public schools. And I don’t see any money being wasted. I find the per-pupil costs surprisingly high, but then I was surprised at the cost of the last car I bought, and I’m surprised at what my house is worth. Things don’t always cost what we think they should, even in a free market.
Dan, I think all the publicly funded schools are doing quite well with what they’re given in terms of funding, I’ve got no issue with public or charter, I will continue to fully support them both. What I find appalling is the layers above. Hate to harp on this, maybe it’s because I just saw it, but we all need to watch ‘The Cartel’. There was so much information and accusation packed in that documentary that I need to sit down with it again and take notes and follow up with my own research.
Down at our local school level, I believe there is great efficiency from the superintendent on down in all our public schools here in RB. Laura Morena works her a$$ off. We’re quoting stats that charter is forced to be maybe slightly (10% plus maintenance aid) more efficient, BUT we’re talking in the range of a couple thousand dollars per pupil. At the state level, we’re talking about millions upon millions of dollars. And that’s not even getting into the pension issue. So do I just wait for Christie to get to that line item on the budget and hope he cleans house? Do I bang my head against the wall with the rest of the parents fighting the teacher’s union? Do I refuse to pay my taxes and get kicked out of my home?
Watch the trailer, Joe Williams has a great quote. “I used to wonder not why parents weren’t protesting but why aren’t parents lighting fires and breaking windows”.
http://www.thecartelmovie.com/
I second the idea that everyone see the cartel. It was very emotional.Some of the things that stood out the most were Patterson spent $30 million on a football field. Yes that is the number correct $30 mill for a football field in a failing district. Not one tenured teacher was fired in 10 years in Bergen County. Over 1 billion is unaccountable in the NJ School Construction Corp and there has not been a single person arrested let alone tried. Disgusting.